the pieces of our childhoods that are the most different from the common experience are the very hardest to deal with.
SO so so true. In fact, writing is the only way I've found that really accomplishes much for me to that end, because my upbringing was so bizarre and unusual that I've literally never met another soul who could relate to most of it, which is why I'm excited to talk to you about it! Because of what you say about talking, sharing and comparing experiences. YES. And boy do I hear you about codependency, self-doubt, and vulnerability, and how hard it is when other people literally can't begin to comprehend even the smallest part of that.
Which brings me to your question about how it could be like that without the religious elements--there was tremendous fear instilled in us--the most comprehensible of it "morality-based" but most of it simply to keep us under control/in line--same with all the manipulation. I too was subjected to countless lies, but that was mostly my mother's pathological narcissism and extreme capacity for denial. In short, she was nuts, but not organically; rather, because she had wrapped herself up in all kinds of falsehoods she felt served her. We were charged with helping her maintain her self-serving fantasy, whatever the cost to ourselves. I think part of what makes an upbringing like that so damaging is later on feeling like you're somehow to blame for the degree to which you went along with all the insanity, but you were a kid--not only did you not know better, but your survival then depended on it. But good for you, and good for me, for getting away from it all.
Frankly, I have reason to believe that old, unresolved Catholic beliefs from my mother's mother's childhood probably trickled down and that's why there was this ('do as I say not as I do,' since my mom engaged in all the bad behavior she quite deliberately terrorized us out of engaging in) "moral" harassment in addition to all the other harassment we were subjected to, even if theoretically they were nonbelievers. (All that "only bad women ..." stuff and dependence on men were deeply ingrained in my mom's worldview, and thus became part of mine, even if she would claim she was a feminist and didn't believe any of that at all. IN CASE YOU CAN'T TELL, IT WAS ALL EXTREMELY COMPLICATED. I've had to spend my life trying to untangle all this nonsense, and it's proved completely impossible to fully explain it to another soul, sigh.)
I'm very glad Dorothy's POV rang true for you! My whole family were nonbelievers, but I chose to go to church on my own when I was a kid, and religion has always been profoundly interesting for me, so I felt I could really get into Dorothy's POV, but it's good to hear it confirmed from someone who actually had significant similarities in their upbringing to Dorothy's. I feel quite fortunate that at least I was spared a religious layer of confusion on top of all the others in my family, because in fact my spirituality IS quite important to me, so I was able to explore it without a bunch of family baggage, which is an interesting way in which you and I seem to have had opposite experiences. I really get how they're too entwined for you resulting in a struggle to have faith at all; there are many such things for me, too, even if religion isn't one of them.
It feels good to have someone to talk to about all this crap; hope it feels good to you, too. :-)
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SO so so true. In fact, writing is the only way I've found that really accomplishes much for me to that end, because my upbringing was so bizarre and unusual that I've literally never met another soul who could relate to most of it, which is why I'm excited to talk to you about it! Because of what you say about talking, sharing and comparing experiences. YES. And boy do I hear you about codependency, self-doubt, and vulnerability, and how hard it is when other people literally can't begin to comprehend even the smallest part of that.
Which brings me to your question about how it could be like that without the religious elements--there was tremendous fear instilled in us--the most comprehensible of it "morality-based" but most of it simply to keep us under control/in line--same with all the manipulation. I too was subjected to countless lies, but that was mostly my mother's pathological narcissism and extreme capacity for denial. In short, she was nuts, but not organically; rather, because she had wrapped herself up in all kinds of falsehoods she felt served her. We were charged with helping her maintain her self-serving fantasy, whatever the cost to ourselves. I think part of what makes an upbringing like that so damaging is later on feeling like you're somehow to blame for the degree to which you went along with all the insanity, but you were a kid--not only did you not know better, but your survival then depended on it. But good for you, and good for me, for getting away from it all.
Frankly, I have reason to believe that old, unresolved Catholic beliefs from my mother's mother's childhood probably trickled down and that's why there was this ('do as I say not as I do,' since my mom engaged in all the bad behavior she quite deliberately terrorized us out of engaging in) "moral" harassment in addition to all the other harassment we were subjected to, even if theoretically they were nonbelievers. (All that "only bad women ..." stuff and dependence on men were deeply ingrained in my mom's worldview, and thus became part of mine, even if she would claim she was a feminist and didn't believe any of that at all. IN CASE YOU CAN'T TELL, IT WAS ALL EXTREMELY COMPLICATED. I've had to spend my life trying to untangle all this nonsense, and it's proved completely impossible to fully explain it to another soul, sigh.)
I'm very glad Dorothy's POV rang true for you! My whole family were nonbelievers, but I chose to go to church on my own when I was a kid, and religion has always been profoundly interesting for me, so I felt I could really get into Dorothy's POV, but it's good to hear it confirmed from someone who actually had significant similarities in their upbringing to Dorothy's. I feel quite fortunate that at least I was spared a religious layer of confusion on top of all the others in my family, because in fact my spirituality IS quite important to me, so I was able to explore it without a bunch of family baggage, which is an interesting way in which you and I seem to have had opposite experiences. I really get how they're too entwined for you resulting in a struggle to have faith at all; there are many such things for me, too, even if religion isn't one of them.
It feels good to have someone to talk to about all this crap; hope it feels good to you, too. :-)