brightly_lit | 9.04, or, the writers are even shipping Men of Letters from the 1930s!

Actually, I loved it. (I think only one other person on my f-list did.) Sure, there were a couple of cringey moments--I was taken back to '70s shows like the Bionic Man with the cheesy "possessed" voices ... although I was pleasantly taken back to the '70s with Charlie coming back to life saying, "Merry Christmas"--just like Frosty the Snowman! And the wicked witch went a little over the top once or twice ("top"? what's this "top" of which you speak?), but hey, we needed a good evil witch cackle in there, I figure.

The part that got on my nerves the most was actually the whole "it's not sexist!!" speech--'cos if male writers put these words in the mouths of female actors, it MUST be true, right?? ("Well, of course it's sexy. What's the matter with being sexy?") Also, sadly, I have to agree with all the people saying Jarpad and Jackles were really phoning it in here--worse than I've ever seen them do before ... but I thought the direction was spectacular (I adore Singer's direction, in this case especially the shout-outs to old movies about intrigue, like the Men of Letters and their ritual at the beginning to turn on the bunker, the old lightbulbs and everything), some of the effects were cool, and the script had a beautiful symmetry. And, above all, props to Props!!

Recently I realized that one of the reasons I was so dissatisfied with S8 was because they seemed to completely throw the basic premise of SPN from ~1.05 through S7 out the window, which is, using the monster of the week as a metaphor for what's going on in the relationship between the brothers. When they started using it as a metaphor is when the show really impressed me and drew me in, and now that they barely do that anymore, it takes a really great story to make me feel fulfilled by an episode. This ep was the first time in a long time where you could say the MoW story was even in any way related to the issues between the brothers, so that pleased me.

Loved Dorothy, loved all we learned about the bunker and MoL history, enjoyed Charlie (even though I'm not the biggest Charlie fan), Sheppard was as awesome as ever, loved the clarity and precision in the way it was shot, love that Sam is getting suspicious ... I just loved it!

And next episode looks UTTERLY ridiculous ... but potentially awesome.

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From:

brightly-lit.livejournal.com

What the-- WHY DO PEOPLE HATE THAT EPISODE SO MUCH? I've written MULTIPLE fics referencing it, because it's BRILLIANT. We'll hunker here and love it together. <333 Us against the world! Seriously, do you have any idea why people objected to it so much?

From:

kalliel

Internalized fannish insecurities wrt Becky, I assume. Other than that, I know people who object to it on grounds of making light of Sam's "date rape," and not handling date rape tactfully. Which on one hand I can understand, and on another, I really don't hold with, because personally, I did see a lot of tact with regard to balancing the humor and the gravitas of the episode, and I think they pulled that off really well. I can't speak for someone who might have experienced real date rape in real life, but I also feel like the episode made a point of Very Pointedly not bearing any sort of resemblance to real date rape in real life for exactly that reason. And even if the episode was largely fun and light, I think Sam's reactions speak for themselves in terms of how unwarranted he found the situation, and it wasn't at all a joke to him, or Dean, or even to Becky herself. And the fact that they react so straight-facedly and so normally to a premise that is so wildly zany serves as counterpoint to the humor of the episode for me. (Even as it increases the humor of the episode, because treating the ridiculous as normal is a Great Thing SPN does--and it had better, given that it's a show about the supernatural...)

tl;dr I think many people hate 7x08 because they either see too much of themselves in Becky and don't like it (and externalize that by talking about how little resemblance Becky bears to fandom, wich is a flat-out lie, XD), or because of insecurities wrt Sam, the emasculation of Sam, the trivialization of Sam's Feelings and Pain. And a small sliver hate 7x08 because of intense personal reasons which are not to be made light of. But I think mostly it's the former two reasons, which I will certainly make light of I don't even care. XD

I dunno, I really didn't feel like the episode was doing Sam any injury. But then, I have an extremely positive, extremely confident belief in Sam, so maybe that has something to do with that? (Which isn't to say that "I just love Sam more than they do!" Because for most of the year I have a fairly negative, extremely unconfident non-belief in Dean, and I am certain that I am 100% a Deangirl; it's just a different kind of love. XP)

From:

brightly-lit.livejournal.com

Internalized fannish insecurities wrt Becky, I assume.

Yeeeahhh, that's all I could think, either. It's not like the first time I saw Becky, I didn't think they were gently making fun of the fans, but obviously she's over the top, and more than that, she's a real character they treat with as much respect as any other. If she'd been a cardboard cut-out, a boring cliche, then I might have been offended, but Becky belongs in the SPN universe--in fact, once they brought in Chuck, there almost HAD to be a Becky.

talking about how little resemblance Becky bears to fandom, wich is a flat-out lie, XD

Bwaha!

For that matter, I'd go so far as to say 7.08 is Becky finally coming into her own and being a badass, after a fashion. She takes action rather than sitting at home mooning over Sam and Dean. To complain about Sam being taken advantage of seems like willfully ignoring the reality of the situation. It's humorous, as you point out. The episode makes clear they never consummate, and above all, though Sam clearly wants to be let go so he can get back to his life, never does he exhibit any sort of fear for his personal safety. (I thought they handled it wonderfully, too.)

I can't help but think it's part of the "get your hands off my man!" phenomenon Jensen mentioned at a con, where the fans get mad if the boys get romantically involved. I don't want to believe this is true of fandom ... but all the evidence suggests it is. I mean, how could you come up with a more likable, real, tough but loving character than Lisa?? And I guess the fans were terrible to her. (I also want to believe it's mostly teenagers doing this, because that seems perfectly reasonable when you're 15; not so much when you're a grown woman.)

As for "the emasculation of Sam"?? I've gotten the vibe people didn't like that, either, and ... really?? That seems like an insult to Sam. Like you, I have great confidence in him, in large part because he has such confidence in himself. Sam is perfectly able to take care of himself, and it's obnoxious (and sexist against men) to suggest that the situation could make him "less of a man."

In terms of discomfort with the imbalance of sexual power, I thought the episode broke ground by switching genders from how such situations are usually presented. We've seen vamps and dominatrices, sure, but getting roofied in reverse? All but never. I thought it was, if anything, sexually empowering, for BOTH Becky and Sam. No one got hurt. I thought it was far more a statement (another one of those emotional realities so few other shows ever go into) on the desperation to make someone love you and the damage that can do, which only a horror show can safely, humorously, address. (Which serves as a metaphor for the way Dean is trying to force Sam to stay "married" to him and hunting! ... though I don't think the writers intended it that way.) Poor Dabb/Loflin; they did such a good job and have been so maligned for this ep.

Ahh, it feels good to get to rave about this episode finally!

From:

kalliel

I'm just nodding and whispering 'yes yes yes!' to myself throughout this entire comment. XD <3

And yes--I meant to mention the fact that the situation itself was harmless, and at no point did anyone--including Sam--actually construe it as such. Which I thought was really well done.

I'm actually inclined to believe that that WAS intentional! Maybe not to the degree that I felt it, but I think that those parallels were conscious on the part of the writing staff, especially given where the episode is placed in the season/series as a whole. So for me 7x08 ended up being this great, cathartic moment because what I saw in Becky and Sam in that episode was basically an excision of what I saw (and continue to see) in Dean and Sam. It's not the whole of Dean and Sam's relationship, but it's a particularly slippery, insidious part of it, and to see its metonym play out, isolated as it was in this humorous escapade, is quite possibly the ONLY way Show could have managed to work with that. (In the same way that Ezekiel is beginning to function as a similar set piece in S9, for instance.)

In short, everything fandom saw in Becky in 7x08, I felt strongly about Dean in 7x04/7x05/7x06/7x07 (and felt prior to that, and continue to feel after that, but at much more manageable levels, XD). To see the problematics of that kind of behavior acknowledged was worlds of satisfying (and perhaps because of, and not in spite of, the oblique route SPN chose to tell that part of the story).

My Sera!stanism is showing, but since she's the only person who fought hard to get show to recognize and avoid consent issues when it came to having vessel!sex (apparently during 4x09, Sera was adamant about making sure Ruby was the only one in her vessel before she had not-rape chair!sex with Sam), I'm willing to believe that she and her writing team also paid due diligence to similar issues wrt Dean and Sam's erotic codependence. ;P