9.04, or, the writers are even shipping Men of Letters from the 1930s!

[brightly_lit]

Actually, I loved it. (I think only one other person on my f-list did.) Sure, there were a couple of cringey moments--I was taken back to '70s shows like the Bionic Man with the cheesy "possessed" voices ... although I was pleasantly taken back to the '70s with Charlie coming back to life saying, "Merry Christmas"--just like Frosty the Snowman! And the wicked witch went a little over the top once or twice ("top"? what's this "top" of which you speak?), but hey, we needed a good evil witch cackle in there, I figure.

The part that got on my nerves the most was actually the whole "it's not sexist!!" speech--'cos if male writers put these words in the mouths of female actors, it MUST be true, right?? ("Well, of course it's sexy. What's the matter with being sexy?") Also, sadly, I have to agree with all the people saying Jarpad and Jackles were really phoning it in here--worse than I've ever seen them do before ... but I thought the direction was spectacular (I adore Singer's direction, in this case especially the shout-outs to old movies about intrigue, like the Men of Letters and their ritual at the beginning to turn on the bunker, the old lightbulbs and everything), some of the effects were cool, and the script had a beautiful symmetry. And, above all, props to Props!!

Recently I realized that one of the reasons I was so dissatisfied with S8 was because they seemed to completely throw the basic premise of SPN from ~1.05 through S7 out the window, which is, using the monster of the week as a metaphor for what's going on in the relationship between the brothers. When they started using it as a metaphor is when the show really impressed me and drew me in, and now that they barely do that anymore, it takes a really great story to make me feel fulfilled by an episode. This ep was the first time in a long time where you could say the MoW story was even in any way related to the issues between the brothers, so that pleased me.

Loved Dorothy, loved all we learned about the bunker and MoL history, enjoyed Charlie (even though I'm not the biggest Charlie fan), Sheppard was as awesome as ever, loved the clarity and precision in the way it was shot, love that Sam is getting suspicious ... I just loved it!

And next episode looks UTTERLY ridiculous ... but potentially awesome.

Comments

Plucky Pennywhistle IS magical!

[septembers-coda.livejournal.com]

I loved Plucky Pennywhistle! The humor was fantastic. That clown fight scene—I felt so bad for Sam, but OMG, so funny. The glitter! And I kind of had a thing for the stoner, Native American PP employee Sam interrogated. He was HOT. :-) When I’m in the mood to re-watch and I want a humor episode, it’s one of my go-tos!

I completely disagree that Dean’s using PP as a babysitter is OOC. Just the opposite—he was a kid himself, after all! Where would he have learned better habits? Because John would probably do that, too, and it would be far from the worst parenting he’d done. Yes, Dean is a caretaker by nature, but not a particularly great one; he didn’t have the tools to be. I thought the idea of him leaving Sam at PP was totally realistic, as was his not knowing, even into adulthood, that Sam hated it. Really, THIS is what people think makes Dean insensitive? He’s done so many worse things! Also… I dunno, I love this about his character. It feels totally real to me.

I find fandom interesting in this way. People have such opposite views, and I think some of it depends on your life experience. Anyone who was forced to take care of a younger relation while still a kid themselves will understand and sympathize with Dean’s plight. Dean doesn’t get enough sympathy, IMO, for having been forced into that caretaker role and feeling that was his only value. If anything, it rides the line of being unrealistic that he did as good a job as he did—but that, too, is very Dean. I can relate to his situation all too well—my sister had a baby at 17, when I was 8. She was, needless to say, not very interested in parenting, and then she wasn’t around. I shared a room with her and the baby, and ended up taking care of him more often than she did, and far more often than MY parents did after she was gone and they adopted my nephew. The situation recurred when I was 16 and she left another of her children with us. I loved my niece and nephew, but 8 and 16 year-olds don’t make good parents, and the situation naturally creates resentment. I look back on some of the “parenting” decisions I made and cringe. And Dean didn’t have the resources I had, and didn’t even have any idea what a normal childhood was like, so how could he be held to any kind of parenting standard? He did pretty damn well, all things considered, but as brightly-lit pointed out, he’s kind of a dick as an adult. So what would be OOC, exactly? I also agree with her that the most dickish thing was giving him the damn clown doll, when Sam got him something nice that he actually wanted. But again, that’s so Dean!

Anyway, I loved the episode. As for being a sensitive person, who can say? Sensitivity can take many forms. I consider myself VERY sensitive, and I didn’t have a problem with Dean’s characterization in this episode.
Glad to give you my thoughts, and get yours, on any and all episodes! I’ll be interested to see what you think of Bitten if you re-watch it. I think it’s a great stand-alone, outside the S8 context. Funny that it’s the only one you’ve watched only once (8.15 totally doesn’t count- UGH). I would have thought you’d like it, since it focuses on minor characters and I know you generally dig those. But I’ve never seen a found/video footage film like Paranormal Activity, except Chronicle, which I think might have sort of inspired Bitten and which was a very well-made movie. I didn’t end up exactly *liking* Chronicle, but I did think it was a great film, if that makes sense.

This is not going to be very helpful in keeping you off LJ until Thursday. Good luck with that. ;-)

Re: Plucky Pennywhistle IS magical!

[kalliel]

<333333333333

And like, I mean, even in the most normative childhood situations--at least, I consider my childhood pretty damn normative? I grew up with responsible middle-class parents, both highly educated, with one working and one stay-at-home parenting; and I dutifully went to school, did extracurriculars, and exited childhood when my parents were in the middle of the most sedate, vanilla divorce proceedings of all time--I feel like other people's normals were different than mine are. Even from my sister, for instance, who had basically the same childhood. I DISCOVERED, in our 8x23 blowout (more crying, fewer life-ending trials) earlier this year arguing about what was and was not acceptable behavior, what was and was not traumatic about growing up, what could and could not be considered "words of encouragement" (I basically told her that the best thing anyone had ever said to me was "you can do better than that" so she should suck it up, and then she told me that the best thing anyone had ever said to her was "thank you" because it made her feel valued and I had never valued her and SHE CERTAINLY DIDN'T VALUE ME, AND HAD NOTHING TO THANK ME FOR, etc.), exactly how variably people can process things, and derive norms from them. I've since determined that if my parents' child-rearing practices lacked for something, I guess it would've been emotional support. Because for me it was like, well, I guess that's not really important wevs, and my sister went off and found it very strongly elsewhere (and joined a cult--our 8x23 argument I mentioned earlier had originally been about said cult, which is how these things tie together). Haha thanks parents. XP

But I digress. As far as perceptions of Show go, and fandom's perceptions go, I really do try to be sensitive to the reality of these different vantage points in fandom, and the impressions of people coming from backgrounds much less adjacent than mine to my sister's. But I think a part of me will always think, at the back of my mind, I do not understand what the big fucking deal is. /O\ Hence the "not very sensitive."

Anyway, Weechesters and Plucky Pennywhistle. I'm kind of like, man, if I find some act incredibly mundane, even with my normative, vanilla upbringing, I can't imagine such a thing would even rate for the Winchesters. Like when we were little, my siblings and I would lie cylindrical wooden poles across an empty planter box, mount them while wearing tomato cages, and then whale on each other with fennel (basically, long-ass licorice-scented switches--that perfect combination of stiffness and give to make it really hurt, haha) until someone fell off the cylinders and into the mud. SO I MEAN, IF THIS IS WHAT WE WERE DOING. Surely Plucky was one of the more reasonable activities Dean could have thought up? It was indoors, there was (bad) food, and it was light and well-supervised, even if it could not possibly be farther from anything Sam seems like he'd enjoy. And I mean... Sam was 12; it's not like he was helpless. I was shepherding all of my siblings by that age, and my brother now (he just turned 13) has definitely been going about his business, managing alone at home, and doing whatever for quite some time. And I can assure the entire world that my brother is nowhere near as perceptive, resourceful, or worldy as Sam was at any age. XD If my brother is grown-up enough to manage himself, I'm sure Sam was fine. If PP was seriously as deeply traumatic for Sam (thereby making it extremely irresponsible of Dean), I don't think Sam would have stood for it. So idk I guess I just think it's more likely it was one of those things where it's like, man, that really fucking sucked, I am never going to get over how much I hated it like I REALLY HATED THAT but ultimately... s h r u g???

Re: Plucky Pennywhistle IS magical!

[septembers-coda.livejournal.com]

Ah, family. Always tricky. The way that reality coincides with the Winchesters is that communication (even as dysfunctional as screaming at each other) is the only way things ever get resolved, WHICH IS WHY SAM AND DEAN NEVER RESOLVE ANYTHING. I guess if they did, the interpersonal conflict that fuels the show would be gone, and the show might lose some of its teeth. But that doesn't stop me from wishing the would just TALK TO EACH OTHER, as I always wished my family would just talk/listen to me. :-} We love our fucked up boys, but I think it would be a little more satisfying if they would SOMETIMES, even if accidentally, grow through some of their Issues. They used to more often...

anyway... love hearing your thoughts, thanks for the chat! <3

Re: Plucky Pennywhistle IS magical!

[kalliel]

And I know that this is the part where people would argue that no, in fact, it doesn't matter how perceptive, resourceful, or worldy Sam was, the conditions of his relationship to his family, etc. made it such that it would have been a lot more complicated than that, and the fact that he endured Plucky doesn't mean he was cool with it, or even grudgingly but passively annoyed with it--that his inaction does not discount how awful that could have been.

Which, granted. And I do think that these things tread uncomfortably close to really damaging issues that people face in real life particularly as the series goes on. (I listened to a TedTalk recently about patterns of domestic abuse, and felt uncomfortable parallels to Sam's various situations--and I am hardly the first--even though I am not of the group that finds Sam's storyline out and out that of someone caught in a terrible, abusive relationship to his family.) And I realize that it's not adequate to just say "but the Winchesters' situation is different." And I do think it's important and worthwhile to keep these other factors under consideration.

But honestly, I don't think that that's the way Sam reads this. (To which the opposition says, well, Sam can be wrong! He can be deluded! And yes, absolutely. But he's also allowed to be right.) And it just didn't seem like PP was really that much of a Big Fuckin' Deal to him, just like Becky's whole plan in 7x08 didn't seem like a big fuckin' deal.

tl;dr I think part of this is actually responding more to S9 arguments I've seen floating around elsewhere than anything else but idek; if Sam thought something was an issue, I trust that he would take the time to address it. Historically, he's been pretty good about that. So idek idekkkk.