9.13, or, THANK YOU, WRITERS!!!

[brightly_lit]

I want to kiss them all on the mouth for this one! (No tongue, though--first, we'll have to see how the season goes after this.)

Seeing fiercelynormal's wonderful gifs from the episode reminded me anew of all the great moments--Dean's "You're weird around girls" announcement; the adorable Minnesoota cop; Dean's "extra cushion for the ..." followed by Sam's sharp look; Dean's hysterical donut-sugar wipe, no self-consciousness at all (God, I love the way Jensen played that); Sam and Dean's reaction when the guy starts doing his "kung fu" moves. Sooo, so many good lines. (And Sam and Dean were actually in character! Anyone else been missing that lately ...?) Also, there might have been something about yoga and shorts and a tank top. Nobody else has mentioned it, but I'm just gonna put it out there that, though it may be controversial to say so since it angers fandom so much when someone objectifies our boys, for myself, I quite enjoyed that bit.

All of it, though. ALL OF IT. It was a good old-fashioned SPN episode at its best: a monster, and humor, and real family drama between characters who act like real people. (I don't think fandom would be so upset if it didn't resonate so much emotionally for us and feel like a real argument between real people.) Basically, all my wishes came true for where I hoped they were going with the storyline, directly addressing the question of whether they (or, specifically, Dean) do more good than harm, whether it's right to kill a monster even if it doesn't hurt anyone--and directly pointing out that they've both been monsters, at one time or another (and it can be and has been convincingly argued that Dean is a very human monster right now). As for the relationship between the boys, I thought that was beautifully handled, too.

Honestly (yes, I've seen the wank--how could I miss it??), I think a great deal of argument within fandom right now could have been quelled with a couple of extra words in the script, specifically when Sam says he wouldn't do the same for Dean if the situation were reversed. I think this was either an oversight on the part of the writers, or possibly deliberate to draw out the tension between them, to delicately side-step defining what, exactly, it is that Sam wouldn't have done if the situation were reversed. After all, he did not say--in that conversation, at least--that what he wouldn't do is directly go against Dean's wishes, do something ... OHH. Oh, no, I just got a glimpse of where they could be going with this that's both horrifying and thrilling. I see now, as I write this, that Sam has made more and more clear every time he's talked to Dean about all this that the reason he was ready to die was that he doesn't want more people to get hurt because of him. Simultaneously, Dean and Show and Crowley continually point out to us that the brothers Winchester--specifically, Dean, or both of them when they're doing things Dean's way--leave a trail of destruction and dead bodies in their wake. So ... what happens when Dean finally accepts this is the case? Everyone knows the show might very well end after S10. Is this leading up to Dean and Sam sacrificing themselves in a blaze of glory? Closing up heaven and hell or something equally huge, their lives being the cost, going into it knowing full well they won't survive, the noblest of kamikaze endings? Ending the series with a bang ... then, if it does go on beyond S10, they can miraculously survive it, just as they always do. Either that or go curtain!fic-y: "You're right, Sam, fuck this. Let's get a house with Cas and Charlie and have cookouts with the neighbors." (Personally, I'm holding out for Destiel being quite literally canon by S20--it would be a gay, angsty hour-long romantic/family drama with action. Gah, despite beginning that as a joke, the more I write about it, the more I want that show!) ANYWAY ... with his body he knew for a fact he would never agree to unless he'd been tricked into it, and all that, although I feel it's clear enough that that's what he meant, from their conversation at the end of the previous episode, and Sam DID say specifically this time, "Same circumstances." Also, he pointed out Dean did it for himself, not for Sam.

Though it came off colder than I believe Sam actually feels in his heart (probably for the sake of adding to the drama), I loved Sam and Dean's interactions for a thousand reasons, boiling down to the fact that from the very first minute of this series, we were presented with this setup: these brothers are as different as they could be, and they've always wanted different things. For this show to go on past S7, that had to be addressed, and they're doing it, they're doing it! I love you, writers!!

Comments

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

I don't think Sam said it coldly; I think he was furious. When he says, "Same circumstances? Yes." it makes sense to me. Because Dean would be boarding up the gates of all. Or Dean would be dying and be okay with it. Those are both hypothetical, but Sam is nothing if not pragmatic.

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

He is a pragmatic boy.

[freya922.livejournal.com]

I thought it was awesome, too. The humor was just spot on. I am still cracking up about 'pishtacos.' (I researched them last night - boy, that is some creepy Peruvian stuff and some really odd beliefs about fat!) The donuts, the Fargo-esque officer of the law, the hairnet, Sam in less than 3 layers of shirts... Yeah.

And although the ending tore my heart out, and I also was dying for a teensy bit of clarification, a softening of the blow... it was intense and tragic and I have utter faith that it's going to be crucial for what plays out next.

I was just thinking, actually, that these boys learned the art of communication (or lack thereof) from John, and isn't that a sobering thought?

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

I was just thinking, actually, that these boys learned the art of communication (or lack thereof) from John, and isn't that a sobering thought?

Yeah, that explains a lot.

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

Glad you loved it, too!

That's a REALLY good point about learning communication from John--argh! And just all their family obsessions/hangups/issues. *sigh*

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

Tank top? Huh. Missed that. Will have to look for it on rewatch. ;-)

I was afraid to read your spoilery thing. Is it based on previews/real actual spoilers (in which case I'll run away with my fingers in my ears going "la la la I can't hear you") or it it purely speculation on your part ( which I would love to read)?

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

Aw, too bad! If only people had made some gifs of that scene ... Oh, well.

Nope, it is pure speculation; read at will!

[septembers-coda.livejournal.com]

Oh I would TOTALLY give the writers tongue for this one. ;-) THERE WOULD BE SERIOUS MAKING OUT. Of course, as you say, I might wish to take the tongue back later, but TONGUE EARNED IS TONGUE GIVEN.

I really, really love your idea for the show's future. Yes, we joke about this stuff, but then... I WOULD SO WATCH THAT SHOW, TOO, and I'm sure we're not alone...

Ah well, that's what fic is for. But I too really feel that renewed faith in the writers' vision, an optimism that they will take the relationship where it needs to go and address what needs to be addressed. YAY.

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

But you don't know where those mouths have been! Actually, they're writers, so the only action those mouths have seen have probably been from pillows/blow-up dolls. HAHAHAHAHAHA--oh, crap, I'm a writer! uh, ahem. *walks away whistling*

Sure does feel good to go into a hiatus feeling good about Show! It SURE makes it easier to write fic!

[septembers-coda.livejournal.com]

LOL!! *whistles along with you*

YES IT DOES. I am suddenly overwhelmed with fic ideas! can't wait to get writing again! <3

[kalliel]

Yessssssssss! Me too! Omg. All the writing. (And then all the reading of everyone else's writing!) Except there are so many things I want to write it's almost paralyzing, because I feel so GLUTTED. XDD

Appropriate pre-hellatus episode premise was appropriate.

[septembers-coda.livejournal.com]

RIGHT? I've never had so many fic ideas at once. And I think I will actually finish at least three of these stories! Including the one I've been working on for, oh... FIVE MONTHS or so, LOL. That one is getting close to actually done, and I can hardly believe it. Now if I can just stay away from challenges for awhile...

Yes, glutted!! BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO PURGE. We're going to digest! And then produce... um, wait. I don't like where this metaphor is going. Never mind. :-D

ANYWAY... I wish you much happy fic writing, and I look forward to the results!

[kalliel]

I was trying to do work yesterday and I kept getting distracted by the SHEER WEALTH OF FICS IDEAS. And then completely pointless Sheriff Donna/Lisa crept unbidden into my mind too. Yet more glutted! @_____@

But yayyyyy for actually writing said ideas! And I feel you on the five-month fic thing, good grief. XD But how exciting will it be when you finally finish it? :DDDD

Needless to say, I look forward to your results, too~

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

Okay, they can't use your idea unless the show really ends. Because if they pull another Swan Song (perfect ending and then oh, hey, just kidding) I will NOT BE HAPPY.

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they can get away with that ONCE. But on the other hand, I could live with it JUST to see Show keep going on forever and ever.

[kalliel]

I am altogether too overwhelmed to effectively pull off this whole episode reaction/meta reading thing anymore, but I CAN'T SAY ENOUGH TIMES HOW MUCH I LOVED THIS EPISODE. In spite of the truly uninspiring spoilers that preceded it. XD A prime example of the Supernatural corollary: If it sounds dumb, it's probably awesome.

And I also wanted to go on record somewhere and say that given how much upset/intrigue/frustration/joy/etc. SPN's kicked up this season, basically what that means is, it won. XD SPN 1, Fandom 0, it won. It hailed us into the maelstrom, the utter complication that is Sam and Dean, and we fucking followed it. And whether people are furious or crying or jumping over the moon, that's exactly where SPN wanted you. The sheer wealth of opinions and counter-opinions and all of the fine, minute distinctions (or huuuuge, jarring ones) between all of the reactions I've read is testament to what they've managed to create with Sam and Dean here; and we all know exactly how it feels to be Sam and Dean right now, albeit never all at once, never completely, and definitely not impartially. But collectively, it's all there.

YOU WON, SHOW. XP I CAN SEE YOU DOING WHEELIES AROUND THE RUBBLE, AND I CAN SEE HOW MUCH YOU LOVE THIS, YOU SADIST.


(But I love it, too. :P)

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

YEAHHH. I was just commenting to someone else that I feel like the writers have been including tons of ideas they think are subtextual but really never get clearer than subliminal, which has been producing a ton of confusion in fandom this (and last) season ... but it sure hasn't kept people from watching, or arguing. I can't help but think of it as a testament to the power of the show and the characters that people can get THIS passionate about it all.

When I was having a short story workshopped once, people started fighting about it (the person getting workshopped wasn't allowed to say anything, because THE STORY SHOULD BE ABLE TO STAND ON ITS OWN, which I thought was a brilliant rule). At first I worried it might represent a flaw in the story, but then I realized they were arguing about the main character and whether and to what degree he was despicable, flipping through and throwing out examples of ways in which he was scum, etc., and I felt ultimately proud of having been able to create a character who was real enough to people I barely knew to make them get in arguments, and I feel a similar pride of SPN right now!

Too, there's a certain messy grace in the way it's so fubar on the Show at the moment. People in real life having these kinds of problems aren't usually terribly good at talking about it, either, so it's kind of realistic in that way.

I should probably blab about this in a post instead (and maybe I will), but codependency has kind of been the draw for most of us fans from the beginning, so it only stands to reason that we would be riveted by it when they finally start delving deep into the core of the issue, however ugly it may be.

Yes, as you know, I love it, too!

[anactoria.livejournal.com]

Either that or go curtain!fic-y: "You're right, Sam, fuck this. Let's get a house with Cas and Charlie and have cookouts with the neighbors." (Personally, I'm holding out for Destiel being quite literally canon by S20--it would be a gay, angsty hour-long romantic/family drama with action. Gah, despite beginning that as a joke, the more I write about it, the more I want that show!)

*would absolutely watch that*

Though, honestly, if the show does go on for much longer, I almost would be happy to see a bit more of an ensemble cast thing going on, with some of the secondary characters around all the time. A different context might bring out a different side to the boys' relationship, and there'd be opportunities for a bit more variety in the interpersonal drama. ;)

BUT. With the interpersonal drama we have at the moment... yeah, I thought this episode handled it beautifully. It was great to see the show address some of the issues that have been going on for so long, and that conversation really felt like it ought to signal a seismic shift. (Dean's face at the end there -- because yeah, basically Sam has just pulled the foundation of who he is into the light and told him it's bullshit. OH SWEETHEART, I know it hurts but you've got to hear it.) Hopefully the show delivers on that -- and at the moment, I feel like it probably will. ♥ Yeah, Sam may have come off as harsh at the end there, but it's so good to see him actually shaking off that deadened resignation and speaking his mind.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if your idea is the way the show does eventually end. And... I wouldn't mind that. It'd be heartbreaking, but it'd also be right, you know?

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

more of an ensemble cast thing going on, with some of the secondary characters around all the time. A different context might bring out a different side to the boys' relationship, and there'd be opportunities for a bit more variety in the interpersonal drama.

This is a GREAT idea. A great idea! It would ease up J2's schedules, give other actors more opportunities, give the writers more to work with in terms of characters and their various relationships, and give the fans more of the secondary characters we so love! Step 1: They need to quit freaking killing every interesting character they introduce!

Yes to Dean needing to hear it, and YES to Sam finally speaking his mind!

It'd be heartbreaking, but it'd also be right, you know?

Yeah, I hold out hope for a happy ending, but ... I suppose it wouldn't really be in line with the rest of the series to do it that way. Going out in an epic blaze of glory would be beautiful ... and SO Sam and Dean. :-)

[anactoria.livejournal.com]

Step 1: They need to quit freaking killing every interesting character they introduce!

That would be a start! ...At least Charlie and Garth didn't get killed off, I guess? (I still hold out hope that Mrs Tran is alive somewhere. And at some point she's going to come back as the scariest hunter in the world AND PUNCH DEAN IN THE NOSE.)

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

hahahah--this is a great idea! You know, I've never been able to believe Mrs. Tran is dead, either. She was such a force to be reckoned with when she was just Kevin's mom; can you imagine her as a hunter?!

[anactoria.livejournal.com]

I know, right? She was properly hardcore. (Everyone else: "Demons are after you! Hide from the demons!"; Mrs T: "...or we could bomb the fuck out of the demons.") Plus, Kevin had to get his smarts from somewhere.

[jensenrick.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either. I so love Sam standing up and saying you have to respect my boundaries and I wouldn't screw you over just to save your life.
Dean OTOH has me so pissed off, by his constant, obnoxious indifference to how much he's hurt his brother, and his dependence on the Dean rules. Rule 1-Dean is right. Rule 2-if Dean is wrong, refer to rule 1.

Where is Cas? Because I'd really like to see him give Dean another strong alleyway beat-down. I'd watch that on repeat.

I've never been a supporter of Destiel, but they have a point- the "codependency" has gotten toxic and it needs to go. I would be all for Destiel if it meant that Dean ended up the sub in a abusive relationship with Cas.
"But Cas, you went against my express wishes!"
"Dean, if you loved me, you'd forgive me." Then Cas would fuck Dean while he cried. I could get behind that.

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

ha ha another alleyway beatdown--that would be pleasant to watch at any time!

Your 'Dean rules' could not be more accurate.

I feel you, though, a lot, having been on the Sam end of all too many relationships that were so very like Sam and Dean's right now. I managed at last to make one of those relationships work out, which involved me having to develop some sympathy for the Dean side of the equation as well (although sometimes when they're being especially outrageous/abusive IT'S JUST NOT POSSIBLE), so that's where more joy comes for me from watching it, just to see them FINALLY BEGINNING TO TALK ABOUT IT. But seeing Sam so restrained and still holding it all in when he has SOO much to be angry about is hard ... but very realistic to his character, as well. They've really hit on something in this show, delving deep into issues real people face, and I love them for it.

Your Dean/Cas idea could make an extremely hot fic. ;-)

Good as always to hear from you and get another opinion on Sam and Dean ....

[jensenrick.livejournal.com]

INORITE! I'll have to find the ep with that original beatdown again. I remember being upset with Cas at the time, I'm sure I'll feel different now.

Yes, well the Dean Rules haven't changed in 9 seasons, so-

That D/C would be a hot fic. I might just have to write it.

Thank you.