Meta: What’s with Sam’s depressed, defeated attitude these days?

[brightly_lit]

I’ve seen a lot of people talking lately about Sam’s depressed, defeated state of mind, expressing confusion and frustration about it--a frustration I used to share, until I wrote my last fic and suddenly got some insight into it. After certain episodes, I remain unconvinced the writers know what they’re doing or are truly taking Sam’s depression and Dean’s self-loathing anywhere other than deeper into both, but these insights did give me some hope that it all means something and is going somewhere and thus I thought I’d share them in case they did the same for others.

My latest fic finds Sam after the events of 6.22, never having recovered from his amnesia, summarily dismissing Dean when Dean treats Sam in his habitual ways--ways this fresh Sam, without a lifetime of training and conditioning, finds outrageous, paternalistic and disrespectful ... because the very first Sam we came to know in S1, if nothing else, had the kind of fire and strength to defy his dad and go off on his own to college, to reject everything he was ever taught and forge a new path for himself, the path he truly wanted. In 1.01, enter Dean, exit Jess, and Sam has a reason to join Dean on the hunt for their missing father.

Time passes, we learn more about the relationship between the boys, the hunt for the YED becomes too pressing and personal for Sam to turn his back on, and within a couple of seasons, Sam has surrendered (as touched on when he talks to his former teacher in “After-School Special”), with significant sadness, to the idea that he tried to get out, but they kept pulling him back in. Sam is suicidal nowadays, “ready to die,” but we can easily trace the roots of that all the way back to S5, when he volunteered--nay, insisted on--sacrificing himself to prevent the apocalypse.

Lots happened that surely couldn’t have made it any easier for Sam to want to go on living: torture in hell, hallucifer, soulless Sam’s adventures (which got a lot of people hurt and killed), Dean’s disappearance and evident demise ... but I’ve come to believe the thing that’s had a far more powerful effect on him than any of these terribly traumatic experiences is the one thing he can’t fight or kill, and that’s Dean’s obsession with him.

Waaay back in S1, Sam dared to say that he didn’t want to keep on being a hunter; he wanted a normal life. Dean was extremely upset, Sam knew it, but back then, Sam was kind but unyielding, recognizing that he’s a grown man who gets to make his own decisions and if it upsets his brother, then that’s too bad but he has to do what he has to do. Still, if there’s one thing we’ve learned about Dean, it’s that he can’t live without his brother by his side, especially now that their parents are gone. I used to get annoyed with Dean’s dependency on his brother, like, Yes, it’s too bad your brother doesn’t want the same things you want, but welcome to the facts and grow the fuck up, Dean.

However, after writing my last fic from Dean’s perspective, I got a window into Dean’s state of mind. Is his (co)dependency on his brother healthy? No; frankly, it’s an all-consuming addiction, but it’s real. Does Dean need to deal with some great mountains of stuff in order to get over it? Hell yeah; both of them do. They’ve seldom been able to talk anything out due to Dean’s phobia of ‘chick-flick moments,’ but it’s the only thing that would heal them now. This codependency hurts them both a great deal, both of them are all too aware of it, but for a great number of complicated reasons going back to Sam’s infancy, Sam is what lies at the core of who Dean is, and try as he might, Dean can’t get around that. He literally can’t let Sam die, or leave, or even say that he would like to leave Dean’s side, without triggering Dean’s overpowering terror of losing him.

In fact, the major arcs of almost every season could be understood as “Things Dean did to hang on to Sam and things Sam did to escape from Dean”: Dean sells his soul to bring Sam back from death. Sam jumps into the pit. Dean risks death to get Sam back out. Sam doesn’t look for Dean. Sam takes on the trials and is willing to die to complete them. Dean won’t let him. Dean tricks Sam into letting himself be possessed by an angel when he knows he wants to die. I guess, looking at this list, these arcs could also frequently be understood as “All the times Sam and Dean tried to give to the other something the other didn’t want, but was instead what they actually wanted for themselves.” Sam wanted a normal life for himself, so he tries to give it to Dean at the end of S5. Dean does what it takes to bring Sam back from death because that’s what he would want Sam to do for him. Sam wouldn’t have wanted Dean to look for him so he didn’t look for Dean in S8, and so on.

Many people have discussed what motivated Sam to let Dean talk him out of completing the trials, what made him say yes to Ezekiel when he believed it was actually Dean telling him that “If there ain’t no you, there ain’t no me!,” etc. Many theories have been floated, but if you look at the things Dean said to Sam to convince him to do what Dean wanted, in every case it boils down to “I can’t live without you,” and the thing is, Sam KNOWS this. He knows. So as much as he wants to do something noble and leave all his suffering behind; for Dean’s sake, he capitulates and does as Dean requests, because he knows better than anyone else ever could how true it is that Dean can’t go on without him. There are people who get frustrated with Sam for not being the brother Dean wants him to be, but if you contemplate it from this perspective, Sam has sacrificed everything he has to give, for Dean’s sake, repeatedly, to his very great detriment, and shows no signs of making another choice.

I rewatched “Sacrifice” not long ago. There’s been debate about Dean’s list of grievances as he gives Sam suggestions for what he should confess to purify himself, but on second viewing, I found it to be a remarkably clever piece of writing. Dean isn’t necessarily listing the worst things Sam’s ever done to HIM; he’s listing the things that (in some cases were and in some cases were not actually Sam’s doing but that) from an outsider’s perspective would appear to be the most egregious mistakes any human ever made--basically, releasing Lucifer and starting the apocalypse ... upon which he ends the list with “... not looking for me.” What Dean is saying is that to him, not looking for him was on par with the worst atrocities perpetrated by mankind ... after which he accuses Sam of doing something shitty to a girl in 6th grade, which turns out to be something Dean himself actually did. Some people think Dean was joking, but I don’t; I think what that was meant to say is that Sam is so much a part of Dean in his own mind that he can’t even differentiate between them.

If the brother you love is so obsessed with you that he can’t let you go, live the life you want, have relationships with other people, or even let you die, wouldn’t you be despairing and depressed? We’ve watched Sam at first gently and then more and more explicitly try to extract himself from the relationship that’s suffocating him since the very first season, and at this point he’s tried everything, including trying to die more than once, first for noble causes and ultimately without redemption in 9.01. No matter what he does, it has no effect. Dean’s codependency, his recklessness and obsessiveness when it comes to hunting, and his abusive and controlling tendencies (which are an inevitable result of his undealt-with addiction) have gotten progressively worse, and Sam knows now that if nothing else, Dean will find a way to force him to remain at his side no matter the cost to either of them. There is literally nothing left Sam could do save killing Dean himself--nothing left that Sam actually would do--that would change a thing. All he can do is wait (and suffer) and pray that Dean finally sees his way clear to begin the process of healing.

It would be a long process. Dean would be controlling and irrational for a long time, but as long as he was trying to move toward healthier attitudes, I’m sure Sam would be patient. They would surely end up no longer at opposite ends of the spectrum, rather, both moving more toward the middle--Dean would no longer believe he had to have Sam there with him to survive, and Sam would come to want to be with his brother. They would find the middle. God, I hope they find the middle.

Comments

[cuddyclothes.livejournal.com]

What makes me sad is that there will never be a middle.

[freya922.livejournal.com]

Wow, this is very insightful. I might not call how Dean relates to Sam an 'addiction' or 'obsession,' but I do get what you mean. I feel that Dean sacrificed his childhood for Sam, and that the only love and affection he received in that family was from Sam. My first take is: Dean has abandonment issues. His mother was yanked from him, he had to grow up overnight, his father was wrecked and couldn't give love or affection or approval to him on a regular basis, and all warmth, affection, self-worth...everything good, everything that makes Dean a lovable person and not just a really great hunter or soldier...came from Sam. His view of himself as a loving person and a protector came from Sam, and just plan love came back to him from Sam.

Then Sam grew up and wanted, as is totally normal, to leave home. And, yeah, by then he is the heart of Dean and Dean is devastated. In some ways, Dean is more mom than brother to Sam, and a mom with no support, no role model, no help to find his way through the 'letting go' process that comes in the later stages of parenthood. (I explored this a tiny bit in my first and only fic, which is the only entry on my LJ and so not hard to find! I know. Pathetic. I can't believe how much fic other people crank out.)

I love the story, and I accept Sam and Dean's intense bond and love it and go with it, even the codependency issues ... but a tiny part of me does say, "Oh, jeez, Dean - let him sacrifice himself in that church because he needs the redemption and he would want to die a hero." As I've said before, I actually think Dean loves him enough to do that... if he could think it through, but emotion rules whenever Sam is involved, especially in the heat of the moment, if you'll excuse the expression. Dean DID let Sam go at the end of Season 5, and he did let Lisa and Ben go...for their sakes... so I do think he can do this even if it tears him to bits given time and maybe some guidance from some wise friend or mentor.

I thought it was very interesting that you saw each trying to give the other what the he himself would have wanted...

One reviewer of the Season 9 premiere said she was loving the episode even though a part of her 'was crying in a little corner for Sam's autonomy,' so I know other people see this, too! It becomes even more clear if you think of the exact same dynamic but in a couple relationship, as in, if Sam were Dean's girlfriend -- all this behavior would look super controlling and not at all healthy.

I had one fantasy this summer about Sam nearly dying, after the Season 8 finale, and Dean having an epiphany as he sits by his bedside... and promising to look at universities with him, help him find an apartment, get a dog... promising to visit him while he works on his degree... Giving Sam what Sam wants and learning to be OK with it, not to cut off when Sam goes elsewhere, but stay connected in a new way.

Wow, that brings up old stuff, too. "I want us to be a family again. "Dean, we ARE a family." Way back in Season 1. And this last episode! I was really glad to hear Sam talk about Dean 'choosing for me..." Maybe they are going to try to show us some growth here... The trick for the writers is to show growth without killing the intensity of the bond that the fans love.

Anyway, just sharing my thoughts...

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

You have some pretty reasonable insights here, especially the part about Dean as 'mom having to let go'--which he had no concept of how to do that. And yet I think it is extremely important to recognize that he DID let sam go at the end of Swan Song--and like you point out, he had time to come to grips with the decision, as opposed to having to decide instantly, when Dean always opts for 'keep Sam alive."

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

And great thoughts they are!!

It wasn't until that most recent fic I wrote that I started seeing how clear the parallels are between addiction and the way Dean appears to regard Sam--that sense of being empty inside without your drug, and being willing to do anything, no matter how horrible, to get more. It made me want to write another fic, exploring it. Maybe I will!

However, I couldn't agree more with pretty much everything else you say. I do wonder about how much warmth and affection he got from Sam in his youth; some of the flashback episodes indicate contentiousness between them, and brothers seldom get along swimmingly in RL, so I might disagree with you about why exactly Dean feels like Sam is so vital to who he is as a person, but we think similarly, even if not identically. I was just going to suggest the possibility of both of us exploring it via fic, and I see you've written one, which I will go read as soon as I'm done here. :-)

Interesting point about being able to let him go if he has time to think about it. I've worried it was a shift in his character since S5 that made him unable to do that now, but you may well be right that it was due to the lack of time to think it through. (I hope so; I don't want to believe Dean has become incapable of it.)

It becomes even more clear if you think of the exact same dynamic but in a couple relationship, as in, if Sam were Dean's girlfriend -- all this behavior would look super controlling and not at all healthy.

YES.

I had one fantasy this summer about Sam nearly dying, after the Season 8 finale, and Dean having an epiphany as he sits by his bedside... and promising to look at universities with him, help him find an apartment, get a dog... promising to visit him while he works on his degree... Giving Sam what Sam wants and learning to be OK with it, not to cut off when Sam goes elsewhere, but stay connected in a new way.

Lord, what a beautiful vision. (I did actually write something similar about Dean coming to terms with Sam's life at Stanford, if you would like to read it: http://brightly-lit.livejournal.com/5176.html)

Thanks for an awesome comment.

[freya922.livejournal.com]

I absolutely will read the fic about Dean coming to terms with Stanford -- it's kind of the same attempt to show him finding balance, I imagine, as I was hoping for at a much later point.

I do think Sam and Dean had conflicts growing up, as any siblings would, but I also think they were each other's only real tether to anything solid. Except for Bobby and Jim, and their Dad, it seems they didn't even have other hunters. (I was just watching early Season 2 and it was pretty clear their dad had kept them out of that larger community to a pretty large extent.)

Anyway - great discussion! (And thanks for checking out my fic.)

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

Very thoughtful analysis.

Freya922's point that Dean had time to accept Sam's impending death in Swan Song put him in a totally different place than when he has to make life-or-death decisions for Sam on the fly.

God, I hope they find the middle.

You and me both!!!

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

In all honesty, I get astonished whenever someone finds it even remotely surprising that Sam is depressed. Why wouldn't he be? Everything he has ever wanted has been ripped mercilessly from him, a mother, a normal childhood, feelings of security and safety, his beloved fiancee, his own body (vessel for Lucifer), his adored big brother's life and soul, his father, Bobby, his sanity when Cas broke his wall etc etc. Plus, he's had to live with constant guilt; he was tainted by something evil from infancy, was coveted by demons to lead their army, his brother sold his soul and was tortured in hell for him, he trusted Ruby whilst he was so screwed up from grief, he inadvertently broke the final seal and released Lucifer, he killed people when he was brought back without a soul, he thought Dean was dead when Roman exploded (I truly think he didn't look for Dean as he thought there was a strong possibility Dean was in heaven, considering Castiel also vanished) and the trials gave him what he thought was his final chance at redemption. Even that was foiled by poor Dean's all encompassing need for Sam.

I think he was really ready to just let go. Anyone in his circumstances would feel they had done enough. Now he's been possessed by yet another evil angel and it was because he couldn't bear to know that Dean just couldn't go on without him. Dean's love for Sam is absolutely the love a mother feels for a child but it goes so much further than that. His fear of abandonment is so strong it overrides everything else and the blame for that lies wholly on John's shoulders. By doing what he did to Dean he screwed him up for life. Poor Sam only ever wanted what everyone wants, a happy, stable life and to make his way in the world; settle down and have a family of his own but he knows he can't have it. A) because something always goes horribly wrong and B) he knows now that it would kill Dean. I think when you put all of it together, who wouldn't want to jump off the nearest cliff?

Freya922 really has a fabulous grasp on Dean's way of thinking.

Your second to last paragraph almost made me cry because it is absolutely 100 per cent the way things are and it's horribly sad.

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

I could tell from another comment I saw of yours that you got around to this way of thinking ahead of me! I'm glad you think so, too, because sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who thinks this way about Sam's state of mind. The reasons you list are so right on target. :-( Poor Sam.

That's a great point that he may have believed Dean to be in heaven since Cas vanished with him.

His fear of abandonment is so strong it overrides everything else and the blame for that lies wholly on John's shoulders. By doing what he did to Dean he screwed him up for life.

I couldn't agree more on this point. I write a lot of John, I have great sympathy for the character, and I truly believe he was doing his best just to keep his family together and alive, but that doesn't mean he didn't fubar Dean completely. :-(

[strgazr04.livejournal.com]

"
In fact, the major arcs of almost every season could be understood as “Things Dean did to hang on to Sam and things Sam did to escape from Dean”: Dean sells his soul to bring Sam back from death. Sam jumps into the pit. Dean risks death to get Sam back out. Sam doesn’t look for Dean. Sam takes on the trials and is willing to die to complete them. Dean won’t let him. Dean tricks Sam into letting himself be possessed by an angel when he knows he wants to die. I guess, looking at this list, these arcs could also frequently be understood as “All the times Sam and Dean tried to give to the other something the other didn’t want, but was instead what they actually wanted for themselves.” Sam wanted a normal life for himself, so he tries to give it to Dean at the end of S5. Dean does what it takes to bring Sam back from death because that’s what he would want Sam to do for him. Sam wouldn’t have wanted Dean to look for him so he didn’t look for Dean in S8, and so on."

"There’s been debate about Dean’s list of grievances as he gives Sam suggestions for what he should confess to purify himself, but on second viewing, I found it to be a remarkably clever piece of writing. Dean isn’t necessarily listing the worst things Sam’s ever done to HIM; he’s listing the things that (in some cases were and in some cases were not actually Sam’s doing but that) from an outsider’s perspective would appear to be the most egregious mistakes any human ever made--basically, releasing Lucifer and starting the apocalypse ... upon which he ends the list with “... not looking for me.” What Dean is saying is that to him, not looking for him was on par with the worst atrocities perpetrated by mankind ... after which he accuses Sam of doing something shitty to a girl in 6th grade, which turns out to be something Dean himself actually did. Some people think Dean was joking, but I don’t; I think what that was meant to say is that Sam is so much a part of Dean in his own mind that he can’t even differentiate between them."


I never would have made these connections. This is absolute genius. You are incredibly insightful. Well done.

Part of me wonders if Sam isn't just as latched onto Dean as Dean is with him. I think the only difference is that Sam isn't so 'shoot first, ask questions later'. He won't jump the gun and make a snap decision to resurrect Dean (i.e. Gadreel). I think he'd be more pensive about it and weigh out what Dean would truly want. That's the difference. Despite claiming that Sam is the 'emo' one, it's really Dean who works on emotion where Sam is more about logic. So Dean panics and agrees to make a deal - either at a crossroads or with an angel - to save Sam. Whereas, Sam considers all the options. However, I think they are both as twisted up in each other. After all, Sam did try making deals and agreed to work with a demon when Dean was in hell. He was like a robot in Mystery Spot after Dean died too. I think by now though maybe he's just so tired. Kind of like a role reversal to how Dean said he felt in Croatoan just after Sam was infected. Part of me doesn't want them to move passed that desperate love they have for each other just because it's why we all fell in love with the show to start with. Though I do know it's so not healthy. I really don't think it'll ever go away. It makes the drama when one of them is in serious peril for the other to do whatever they have to in order to save their brother. I do hope they find the middle too. I want the s1 brotherly love back. I want them to remember what it was like to be HAPPY with each other instead of this long-suffering feeling that's happening lately. Cas needs to lock them in a room together at the bunker and force them to TALK for once. And who knows, maybe this will be the first season where they'll hung WITHOUT someone having to die first! XP

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

Well, thank you! What an awesome compliment.

I believe you're right that Sam is as wrapped up in Dean as Dean is in him; the relationship has just gone one direction for so long that Sam probably doesn't even realize it (Dean either). (Argh, robo!Sam in Mystery Spot! That always gets me right in the heart ....)

You are SOO right that Sam would think about what Dean wants and that Dean is really the one ruled by his emotions.

I too have been concerned the show would lose its steam if they weren't so wrapped up in each other, but I had a vision of what it could be like if their relationship were healthier (which I will describe in a comment below, and maybe in a fic, too!), and I found it more compelling, if anything, than what they have now ... because what they have now is so broken, there's hardly any satisfaction for me in their interactions anymore. :-(

I want them to remember what it was like to be HAPPY with each other instead of this long-suffering feeling that's happening lately.

YES! And yes to the hug, too!!

[strgazr04.livejournal.com]

Yes it isn't as fulfilling as it used to be for me either. I think that's what I meant when I was trying to describe that long suffering feeling. I miss the happiness they had, the love they shared 'because you're my brother' and not having it like 'I love you in spite of all those stupid mistakes you just made'. It's almost like they have to love each other because they are related but they don't want to. Reminds me of that "you can't choose your family" line from Unusual Suspects. And to think, Sam got pissed at the cop who said it.

All I want is for them to be on the same team again, and not just out of obligation.

[bowtrunckle.livejournal.com]

“Things Dean did to hang on to Sam and things Sam did to escape from Dean” ... “All the times Sam and Dean tried to give to the other something the other didn’t want, but was instead what they actually wanted for themselves.”

So insightful. I love it. And it makes perfect sense--after all "Do to others as you would have them do to you". The most basic way (or knee-jerk-reaction way) you show someone you love them is to do things that make sense to you, to act in way that you yourself would perceive as love, and to project what you want onto their wants. Of course, most people who aren't fictional and in sadly consuming, codependent relationships understand the concept of theory of mind.

Dean did let Sam go at the end of S5. That was Kripke with his giant red marker circling and underlining Dean's choice as the emotional mile marker for character development. It was beautiful and satisfying for Dean's character over a 5-season arc. And that was the end of the story for Kripke, so appropriately it was a full circle end for his characters. But then Show continued, and in 6x01 Dean told Sam that he broke their promise and looked for ways to get Sam back, which had me cheering and facepalming at the same time (yay, Dean looked for Sam and *facepalm* Dean regressed emotionally and looked for Sam).

So when it's a necessity for the emotional story Dean can let Sam go. And when it's a necessity for the emotional story Dean can't let Sam go. I'd love to see some solid, permanent character growth, some repercussions, and maybe bask in the glow of something more healthy and functional for Sam and Dean, but I fear it's not going to happen until the very end because the writers feel this burning need to manufacture conflict between them only in this way.

Also, I just want to see one of Sam's double-dimple smiles again. RIP dimples. :'(

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

"Do to others as you would have them do to you".

YES, I always think of this, too--it's more of a fact of human nature than a rule to live by ...

(yay, Dean looked for Sam and *facepalm* Dean regressed emotionally and looked for Sam).

TOTALLY.

I could not agree more with your last two paragraphs (sad Sam :-( ), and it's part of what's making me insane about the show these days. I think the writers believe they can't create a compelling story out of two characters who are growing and relating to each other in a healthier way, to which I say, THEN YOU GUYS AREN'T TRYING HARD ENOUGH. It's cheap, to keep them SOO codependent (and broken) for so long with no resolution, and frankly, a bit of a betrayal to the fans who've watched this long in hopes of some--any--redemption. After all, what I think we all loved so very much about the first couple of seasons was how real their relationship felt--and this was when they were getting along comparatively great! Even under the best circumstances, conflict would arise naturally between these brothers who are so different from each other; they don't need to manufacture it artificially, and I think the fans are onto them and getting frustrated. I know I am.

Sammy!

Thanks for your comment! It was good to get your thoughts on this. :-)

[strgazr04.livejournal.com]

YES YES YES YES YES!

[morganlucas41.livejournal.com]

This is a really insightful meta, and I've never thought about the show quite this way.

My question, though, is this: regarding this "middle" that Dean and Sam could hopefully work towards. How do you see them reaching that? I understand that Dean needs to get to a point where he realizes he can live without Sam (this has been a major issue I've recognized at least since the end of S2) but how does Sam realize he actually wants to be with Dean?

I guess the point you've articulated here is that Sam has, in his own way, been trying to get away from Dean all along. And viewed through the lens you've created here, that does appear to be the case. So what then has to change for Sam to realize that he wants to be with Dean?

Dean's main issue is absolutely that he needs to let go of Sam. He can't let Sam do anything on his own, he has this crippling fear of Sam leaving him...you hit the nail on the head with those observations.

I guess I'm just wondering, what IS the positive end game for the two of them - or is there one? If the fundamental tension in the show is that Dean can't live without Sam and Sam just wants to get away from him, then how is there ever a resolution?

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

Ooh, your comment is making me really want to write a fic on this! Part of what inspired this meta was that my friend and I were joking around at the store the other day, taking on the roles of Sam and Dean, only a healthy(er) Sam and Dean who were trying to work things out. (I played Sam.) We were just messing around, but it came out oddly fervent and genuine, and it was my first inkling how their future might look if Dean finally came around and started working on this stuff.

Basically, Dean was mindful of what Sam wanted, but, realistically, not always able to refrain from his compulsive behaviors to try to control everything. So Dean would be like, "Sorry, Sam, but I can't help it!" Sam was like, "I know. It's okay. Just DON'T EVER LET AN ANGEL POSSESS ME AGAIN, DEAN!" "I know. I won't." "REALLY? Dean, you don't know what it's like--" "I know, Sam! I won't. I promise."

Maybe both of them know that right now he might not be able to keep that promise, but at least he's really trying his best! And that has to be good enough as he finds his feet as an person independent from Sam and deals with all his fears and feelings and issues. It seemed much more natural than the way Dean currently so often dismisses Sam's wishes; Dean really loves him and surely deep down wants him to be happy. It seemed much more natural to Sam, too, to get to really express himself vehemently (and to know that he'd be heeded); he's got such a naturally strong personality and sense of self.

Playing the character of Sam in that scenario, I could feel that once he was an equally important, powerful part of the relationship again, the relationship was just as important to him as it was to Dean, which led me to thinking about all the reasons why he tries to get away when he's NOT heeded. In psychological terms, I don't think their codependency could be that intense if it wasn't in the both of them. I think Sam just longs for resolution and healing, so as long as he felt like they were on that road, he would be 100% on board in the relationship and with helping Dean heal (and, by extension, himself).

Ever since I got a vision of how it could be healed between them, I've wanted to write a fic delineating it more clearly, so I may just do that! Your comment's inspiring me ...

[reggie11.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure that Sam is desperately trying to get away from Dean. I think he has always needed Dean. My take on it is Sam keeps desperately running from the life of hunting and Dean is inextricably tied to it and I also think he really wants for Dean to have more to his life than hunting and Sam. I think that's why he pushed so hard for Dean to be with Lisa. It must be an incredible burden, in a way, to be the sole focus of such an obsessional love - it would no doubt make him feel enormous guilt for wanting a life outside of it. It's been clear throughout the seasons - but never moreso than season 8 - how upset it makes Sam that Dean doesn't feel worthy of love and how he feels that he's never good enough. I think that would also be a contributing factor into Sam often putting distance between them to perhaps force Dean into seeing life without his laser focus constantly on Sam and to try and prevent him from constantly sacrificing his own needs for Sam's. Their dynamics are such a push-pull all the time and probably always were. I wish with all of my heart that the show writers would bring back the bonds they had in the first two seasons instead of constantly pitting them against one another. I don't think there will be a happy ever after for them when they wrap up the show but I'm hoping that the writers at least let them get some balance.

[darkrose-9.livejournal.com]

We’ve watched Sam at first gently and then more and more explicitly try to extract himself from the relationship that’s suffocating him since the very first season, and at this point he’s tried everything, including trying to die more than once, first for noble causes and ultimately without redemption in 9.01.

This. I don't understand how some people think that Sam's behaviour is atypical of him. Part of his heaven was dinner at another family's house, and memories of the time he ran away to flagstaff.

Sam first met Meg when he left Dean in season 1, and in season five the brothers were separated for quite some time. Sam has always left Dean, it's Dean who can't let go.

Dean couldn't let go of his father, the pilot, season 1(Jess dies). Dean couldn't let go of Sam, selling his soul to bring him back. Dean couldn't let go of Bobby, carrying the flask with him everywhere, and Dean couldn't let go of Cas, searching obsessively through purgatory to find him.

Dean loves deeply, but he doesn't express it well, and ends up hurting the people around him.

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

I don't understand how some people think that Sam's behaviour is atypical of him. Part of his heaven was dinner at another family's house, and memories of the time he ran away to flagstaff.


YES.

Dean loves deeply, but he doesn't express it well, and ends up hurting the people around him.


Well put, and a great list of all the times Dean hasn't been able to let go. It makes brilliant sense for him as a character; psychologically, it makes perfect sense that he would get this way after losing his mom and his home and life as he knew it at such a young age. He tries to be so strong, but it's just covering up this big hole in him he's spent his life trying to fill, mostly with Sam.

Thanks for your contribution.

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

This is very interesting. I've always felt Dean *can* let Sam go, he just can't let him down. So when Sam dies because Dean didn't do his duty (wasn't able to keep demons from kidnapping him or stop Jake in time in Cold Oak, didn't kill the hellhound so wasn't able to complete the trials in S8), this is when he falls apart. And when Sam leaves or dies of his own accord (S5), Dean can live with it.

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

Ah ... very interesting take on it, and it would make great sense with his character and his "look after Sam" conditioning.

[kitap.livejournal.com]

Dean has left Sam alone and walked away before. Had John not gone missing in the pilot Dean would have left Sam alone at Stanford until Sam needed Dean to do something for him. Canonically Dean left Sam alone for two years if not longer. Dean didn't want to be reunited with Sam after Citizen Fang; Cas made them.

Sam on the other hand wants Dean to stay out of his life until he doesn't then wants Dean to come running.

[darkrose-9.livejournal.com]

Do remember though that when Sam expressed surprise at Dean hunting alone, he rejoined along the lines of "I'm 26, I can hunt by myself". And then later when Sam says that Dean doesn't need him, that he can hunt alone, Dean says "Yeah? Well maybe I don't wanna."

I think you could read John leaving Dean AKA "Dad's missing" as a thinly veiled excuse for Dean to fetch Sam. If you will recall, Sam is the one who is insistent that they find their father. Dean is the one who takes every hunt thrown their way - maybe because it gives him more time with Sam?

However, in season 5, Dean was faced with a larger problem. If he left Sammy alone, he would become the devil. I think that still weighs on the back of his mind somewhere.

Food for thought. :)

[kitap.livejournal.com]

No. Not food for thought for me.

Dean was worried enough about his father's disappearance he went to the one person who would understand: Sam. Remember at this point they have been solitary for the most part. They have no big in to the broader world of hunters. Add to that Dean wants to see the brother he raised, see if Sam wants to resume contact. Clearly Sam did not.

After that, had Jessica not been killed so theatrically Sam would have stayed away. And Dean was prepared to honor that.

Sam's an adult, with adult rights and responsibilities, not an abused puppy.